tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post1989789275260143337..comments2024-03-02T03:42:21.541-05:00Comments on Bastard Books: Guest Post: The Achilles Heel of Urban Fantasy by Paul WeimerBastardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06262625208142078301noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-8846924401758585842012-10-15T19:44:16.235-04:002012-10-15T19:44:16.235-04:00Wow. I have to say you really hit on a few great ...Wow. I have to say you really hit on a few great points here. I do enjoy my UF but there are some slips in many of them, and you are right on. Thanks for the great post.Melissa (My World...in words and pages)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09621830513280969319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-79259643134772092882012-10-08T16:32:53.827-04:002012-10-08T16:32:53.827-04:00I've never read UF, but I totally get the grin...I've never read UF, but I totally get the grinding of teeth when someone writes something totally screwy when they could've fact-checked it in twenty seconds.<br /><br />And thanks for the tip on Thieftaker - it's a time I'm most interested in.Steve MChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15026970188928733645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-29684345691162140062012-10-08T13:44:14.889-04:002012-10-08T13:44:14.889-04:00I disagree with you, Paul. Charles de Lint is very...I disagree with you, Paul. Charles de Lint is very much the godfather of Urban Fantasy. (but you knew that.)stina leichthttp://www.csleicht.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-87393636247670239852012-10-05T12:29:13.820-04:002012-10-05T12:29:13.820-04:00Thank you for the complimentThank you for the complimentPaul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-72677776131848720962012-10-05T12:28:45.177-04:002012-10-05T12:28:45.177-04:00I read some De Lint years ago...he's really pr...I read some De Lint years ago...he's really proto-Urban Fantasy in my mind. Too, Crowley.Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-18186683332397476342012-10-05T00:56:31.103-04:002012-10-05T00:56:31.103-04:00What about Charles de Lint? He's the godfather...What about Charles de Lint? He's the godfather of urban fantasy if you ask me. And there's also Little, Big by Richard Crowley - it builds slowly, but the book as a whole is breathtaking. <br /><br />In terms of world building, I always thought a lot of urban fantasy made use of magical realism.... but your argument makes me wonder if perhaps I was just being overly generous towards the authors. Christian Freyhttp://www.christianfrey.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-20593328444712568952012-10-04T18:30:53.145-04:002012-10-04T18:30:53.145-04:00Don't worry Bryce, no one will be judging you....Don't worry Bryce, no one will be judging you. Yours is fine...just...fine :PBastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06262625208142078301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-20416715085304920082012-10-04T17:18:04.730-04:002012-10-04T17:18:04.730-04:00Oh, this is the quality of articles you wanted? .....Oh, this is the quality of articles you wanted? ...whoops. :)Bryce L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13951278240008332023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-82840588333916457192012-10-03T18:58:05.665-04:002012-10-03T18:58:05.665-04:00You make some really good points. The thing with ...You make some really good points. The thing with world building is - it must be so difficult for authors trying to balance how much information against whether the reader will just become bored with major info dumps and also how to introduce all the description without it seeming a bit trite. I must admit that I read some books and know for a fact that I'm just picturing things as I think they're meant to be - but not because of the inclusion of any description from the author. It doesn't necessarily put me off though.<br />I've really enjoyed Kevin Hearne's series and also like Jim Butcher. I have read a couple of Ilona Andrews and also enjoyed the first few by Patricia Briggs - the Mercedes books - although, a bit like Butcher the series gets better and the first couple are sort of hit and miss!<br />Thanks<br />Lynn <br />Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13928865767523025349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-87193428840358148032012-10-03T15:01:55.599-04:002012-10-03T15:01:55.599-04:00Paul, another series that you can give a shot is M...Paul, another series that you can give a shot is Mark del Franco's Connor Grey series. It heavily focuses on the impact of Fey population both in the social and political ambiance.<br /><br />It started a bit dull for me, but after a while it became one of my favorites, specifically because of the focus on these aspects.Bastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06262625208142078301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-16037132830022433382012-10-03T12:37:04.080-04:002012-10-03T12:37:04.080-04:00True and I hope that it evolves the way Epic fanta... True and I hope that it evolves the way Epic fantasy has. Its a very promising sub-genre and one which interests me greatly. I can second Kara-Karina's reco about Ilona Andrews. The first book in their Kate Daniels series is their least favorite one so I would suggest you begin with Magic Burns (the 2nd book of the series).<br /><br /> Also they have a novella out called Alphas:Origins which is a dark SF, UF blend which I think you might enjoy more.<br /><br /> MihirThe Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01060590167867977158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-50393031279620712032012-10-03T12:18:21.959-04:002012-10-03T12:18:21.959-04:00I don't think you need to go the full Butcher,...I don't think you need to go the full Butcher, but stopping and thinking about the implications of stuff is what I want. Having more supernaturals undercover in a town than actual inhabitants does NOT work. Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-77251186494612083942012-10-03T12:17:01.613-04:002012-10-03T12:17:01.613-04:00Thanks. I have read the first Kevin Hearne, and sh...Thanks. I have read the first Kevin Hearne, and should continue that series at some point. I'll take a look at Ilona Andrews.Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-30493380831314229282012-10-03T12:12:00.472-04:002012-10-03T12:12:00.472-04:00Possibly. It depends on how UF evolves as a genre....Possibly. It depends on how UF evolves as a genre.Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-79679921079241906452012-10-03T12:11:20.293-04:002012-10-03T12:11:20.293-04:00Yeah, I fell out of reading it because of "He...Yeah, I fell out of reading it because of "Hey, new shiny" but I should catch up. I have been spoiled a bit by the DF worldbuilding book. I know a lot of what happens! :)Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-11081161326736202292012-10-03T12:01:46.768-04:002012-10-03T12:01:46.768-04:00Even as a serious UF fan, I can't disagree. F...Even as a serious UF fan, I can't disagree. Fortunately, that's not a huge issue for me. To the contrary, one of the big draws of UF for me is it keeps the author from having to do much in the way of world building and lets them put that effort into the characters and plot. Most importantly, it keeps them from going Full Tolkien.<br /><br />Butcher is a definite exception but he's an evil genius and has figured out how to do it well with minimal effort. He's even published his methods, so nobody else has an excuse.The Mighty Buzzardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703728129545347266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-13082171415367785432012-10-03T12:00:31.592-04:002012-10-03T12:00:31.592-04:00Fantastic post, Paul! How about you try Ilona Andr...Fantastic post, Paul! How about you try Ilona Andrews? The authors have fantastic world-building and their world feels very organic. I'm making a note of Libriomancer as I have had Jim C Hines on my wishlist for a very long time. You must read Kevin Hearne, his writing is beautiful. I hopy you will find more UF to your satisfaction, and like you I'm very curious about new Jacqueline Carey. Thanks to you and your host for a discussion on a much needed topic!kara-karina@Nocturnal Book Reviewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11262585710463536717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-40025354028822688192012-10-03T11:54:33.850-04:002012-10-03T11:54:33.850-04:00Hi Paul
Those are some pertinent points you br... Hi Paul<br /><br /> Those are some pertinent points you bring up in regards to urban fantasy books and the worlds described in them. I think what is happening is UF is still in its nascent stages, like fantasy was in the 70s. After the explosion in the 80 & 90s, readers wanted more from fantasy and that's when RJ, GRRM, & Steven Erikson arose. The last decade has seen even more variations in the fantasy genre thanks to Scott Lynch, Joe Abercrombie and the likes.<br /><br /> I believe in a few years we'll be coming to the saturation point in UF when the readers will demand a complicated world and when the "people only want to see what they want to see" won't fly by so smoothly in readers minds as it does now. That's when I believe this subgenre will begin its true rise and we will get stories worthy and rivaling ASOIAF, WOT, POT and many more...<br /><br /> MihirThe Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01060590167867977158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-10703491433856635512012-10-03T11:24:07.785-04:002012-10-03T11:24:07.785-04:00Good point on the lazy worldbuilding. I myself pre...Good point on the lazy worldbuilding. I myself prefer the more mythic-flavored urban fantasy - Emma Bull's War for the Oaks (and also Finder), Terri Windling's The Wood Wife, lots of Charles de Lint's work, etc. But I do LOVE the Dresden Files...if you've only read a few of the books, you simply must keep going. It's one of the few long-running series that gets better and better as you go along. Courtney Schaferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00593975028655479293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8748211313953490132.post-41275472129901462742012-10-03T10:59:45.437-04:002012-10-03T10:59:45.437-04:00Some good points there Paul. I say this much, the ...Some good points there Paul. I say this much, the "people only want to see what they want to see" bit is dead-on. Seems like I've stumbled quite a few times with stories that drop that line as a means to explain how all of this has remained a secret to this point, and in my opinion it's becoming a bit harder to swallow each time.<br /><br />It's nice to see when novels take it a step further, like Seanan McGuire you mention has death penalty solutions for example. And of course, capability to mess with human minds.Bastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06262625208142078301noreply@blogger.com